Conscious Choice Seattle: Love, Faith and Your Relationship

March 2004 | Feature Story

Love, Faith and Your Relationship

By SILJA J. A. TALVI

We at Evergreen Monthly decided to find out a bit about how people go about spirituality in their relationships. To accomplish this, we brought together a few women from a variety of ethnic, regional and religious (or non-religious) backgrounds. Some of these women are married, others are in steady relationships or dating and having a great time meeting new people. We included women in their 20s, 30s and 40s, all of whom live in the Puget Sound area.

What we discovered was that spirituality does matter in relationships. For some, it’s the defining factor of whether they’ll date someone or not. For others, it’s more about shared concepts of ethical behavior.

These women represent just a few of the experiences out there. But this roundtable of viewpoints illuminates many of the issues the rest of us face in dating, love and marriage. Here is an excerpted transcript of the women’s recent conversation over tea and appetizers at the Teapot Vegetarian restaurant on Capitol Hill:

EM: Tell us about yourselves and your spiritual/religious backgrounds.

Stefani Quane, Seattle, 40, lawyer: My family did not participate in any set religious activities when I was growing up. We celebrated Christmas only as a gift-giving ritual. But once I reached 28 or 30, I started therapy, which led to exploring [spirituality]. I went on blitzkrieg—from Buddhism to silent retreats to Wicca. Then I ended up as a minister in a small church, an energy-based system that relies on meditation techniques.

Tova Ramer, Bellevue, 46, hairstylist: I was born a little Catholic girl in northern California, but quit going to church when I was 15. I eventually started getting involved in the Jewish faith, because I was drawn to the people and to the faith. Consider that where I grew up, I didn’t even know any Jewish people! I met a wonderful Jewish person when I was 19, and we really hit it off, and that started my exploration. I went through conversion seven years ago, and changed my name to “Tova,” which means “good” [in Hebrew]. It’s a daily affirmation of something positive in my life.

Danielle Whitley, 25, Seattle, childcare worker: I was raised Catholic in northern California. I went to church with my mom for a while, and then I stopped going altogether. I believe there’s something “out there,” something bigger than us, but I don’t really identify as belonging to any particular religion or form of spirituality. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way [to practice religion].

Wendy Maguire, 39, Seattle, entrepreneur/publisher: I was raised without any formal religion ... My life is a spiritual journey, and it’s about understanding myself in the world and seeing Spirit in everything. I’m very open to what form it takes. Twelve-step groups have also been a part of my independent journeying toward a relationship with a higher power.

Pat Harding, 47, Seattle, organization development consultant, People to People Consulting: I was raised Christian. I’m still a non-denominational Christian.

EM: Are you currently in a relationship? And if so, what spiritual or religious background does your partner/spouse come from?

WM: I’ve been married for nine years, and my husband is a recovering Catholic. I have two children, 7 and 5, as well as two stepkids. They’re open to pursue whatever spiritual path draws them.

TR: Today I am celebrating the 25th anniversary of the day that my husband and I met and set our first date! We’ve been married for 24 years this year; he’s a great guy. We have two children, and another teenager living with us. My kids are 17 years and 14 years old. My husband is Jewish, from Brooklyn, and he got re-interested in Judaism when I went through my conversion. We’re both very involved in playing music at kabbalistic meditation events and synagogues.

DW: I’ve been with the same guy for two and a half years. He was raised without any religion or faith. I think he’d consider himself an atheist, because he believes that there’s nothing that can prove there’s anything past what we see here in the world.
I’ve found it interesting to be with him because it helps me reflect on my own spirituality, my viewpoints, and where I came from. We’ve had emotional conversations [about spirituality], but no fights about it. I tend to get more emotional than he does about the issue.

PH: I consider myself single, but I’ve been in a relationship for three and a half years with a Christian, like me. We met through an introduction by a friend, and then exchanged letters for 18 months. He eventually relocated here to Seattle.

I also have a 20-year-old daughter from another union. She’s Christian, in college, and I don’t make her go to church. But she makes good choices on a regular basis. She’s really paid attention to what I was teaching her when she was growing up.

SQ: I’m single, which is a hugely complicated and rich thing. I just ended 11 years with somebody, where we had had an on-again-off-again relationship. I’m beginning to think that maybe I’m one of those polyamorous people.

That guy and I could never kick over into marriage, and spirituality was one of the big reasons we couldn’t do that. We couldn’t go to the deepest point of intimacy ... he didn’t believe that God could be known. He believes in rationalism and logic, and I will make decisions on intuition and meditation.

Our worst fight was when he told me that my meditation was like doing heroin. All of our other fights tended to flow from that central issue and conflict over spirituality.
Now, I feel single like I haven’t felt before. It feels the same way to me now as I felt 11 years ago. I tend to be in deep, intimate partnerships, yet never with just one person. It’s definitely not conventional. Earlier on in my life, I wanted to live in Bellevue with a husband that kept me at home. I wanted to live next to a golf course, volunteer at
Benaroya Hall and be a member of Junior League! I have woefully failed at achieving that, but it’s been fun. I’ve had really rich relationships, very romantic and passionate.

EM: How important is spirituality for you, in the context of intimate relationships?

WM: For me, spirituality is a driving factor in my relationship. When I’m looking for intimacy, I’m looking for a deep intimacy. It’s not just a love connection, but it’s a deep spiritual connection. I believe that two people, especially in intimacy, can create something profound ... and that energy can be shared with everyone, raising the positive vibrations in the world.

My husband is the person that gave me that experience of deep intimacy for the first time, a feeling of being complete, fulfilled. Something happened [after a few years of marriage], and we’re trying to find our way back to that sense of intimacy. Over time, slowly, we lost it, so we’re trying to find our way back.

PH: For me, I wanted to date only who God sent me. Once I had my daughter, I was actually celibate. I was determined to do it God’s way.

EM: But you two [Pat and her current boyfriend] aren’t married?

PH: We need to work on some things in our lives before marriage. You need to get your stuff together before you enter into a marriage. We’re still together and still in love. It’s a sacrifice right now, but it’s exciting ... we’re in a place where we’re having to get it together. We’ve been through so much that we have depth.

EM: Has a sense of spiritual purpose or religious faith helped your relationships last?

TR: There definitely was a time when my faith supported me in not flying off and running away. I started thinking, “I need variety, something else! This isn’t looking the way I want it!” But in those moments, you also realize who you are spiritually connected to, friends and [your] community.

All of it means that you’re not just you anymore. You affect many people with your decisions. It gave me grounding, a reason to believe that maybe I should think a little longer on these things rather than responding emotionally. So far, that has worked well.
In our marriage, we went through one rough period. Well, actually, the first year was hard on him because he was very independent, and so am I. I think it was hard for him to have someone speaking up all the time.

Then, about five years ago, I had a hard time in the relationship. I had to realign my purpose and look to see what we really had created together. We make so much more together than we do apart from each other. It’s that powerful togetherness where you realize it’s about more than your own needs, and that it’s also about not neglecting your own needs.

EM: Has any of you sought spiritual counseling?

TR: I went to see a spiritual counselor myself, and [my husband] came with me a few times. I also talked with the rabbi a few times, just asking questions like, “Wow, what do you do when you get to that really tough time?”

I do believe strongly that just because I said, “I do,” it doesn’t mean I will stay forever in a dead relationship. If I don’t feel alive and I don’t feel like we’re doing something, growing together, then it’s not worth it. But our relationship feels very alive again, and talking about it [with counselors] has helped.

PH: We couldn’t really [afford] spiritual counseling, but we were able to delve deeper into our spiritual beliefs by reading the Bible and looking at core principles. We looked closely at which ones we were violating that might be causing us to go off track.
If we hadn’t focused on making that a lifestyle, we wouldn’t be together today.

WM: We’ve gone to see a local spiritual/tantric counselor. We’ve been through an intensive, five-month, 10-session course, which was a study of subtle energies. The idea was to come to know ourselves more energetically. I’ve gotten to know the Kali energy—the dark/destroyer energy—because there are certain things that he does that drive me crazy.

Basically, it’s like: “I’ve asked you a hundred times; there’s no longer an excuse for you to keep doing that.” We’ve come to the decision that if he’s made an agreement and he breaks that, then it’s okay for me to be righteously angry! I can’t control his outcome, but I can feel okay about getting mad.

My husband is also working on fully stepping into his masculinity and defining his own purpose in life. When he is masculine and knows his place in the world, he’s a rock wall; he’s firm and grounded. That’s what I want. I want a rock wall, not a mushy, muddy slope. At one point, I was ready to walk out of this relationship. That’s not where I am now. Now, I’m engaged in this dance with him. So, if we eventually walk away from one another, we walk away having tried everything humanly possible to make it through.

EM: How do you go about finding someone who is spiritually well suited to you in dating and relationships?

SQ: Spirituality is number one in my life, but I’ve changed my thinking that I have to know right away what someone believes in spiritually. I’ve realized that nobody gets you to God, because that’s a path you march yourself. I’ve gotten more tolerant for partners to have their own way through life. I feel less threatened that my path to the divine somehow hinges on their behavior.

My path comes from a solid place in me, not from them. Also, there are many people who will tell you that they’re very spiritual, and they’re not. So you can’t always trust that. Just like there are people who say they’re a good Christian, but they don’t conduct themselves that way at all.

I’m looking for a complete person, but you have to be willing to accept the total package in the form that it takes. If you start making a list and say, “I’ll only date someone liberal, spiritually well-matched, cute, athletic, financially secure, etc.,” then you’ll likely be describing the person you’ll never meet!

Next month: Our roundtable participants speak out on the concept of imperfection, communication in relationships and spirituality in children.

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